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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 1:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: The Greedful Dead

Ah, to hell with it.

If they don't care about how much this hurts the weakest among us, those most in need of healing and solace without a price tag, those for whom there is no other recourse but silence, those who drew from this free resource the inspiration to carry on a daily struggle to survive despite having so few other resources, then why should any of us?

Blessed are those, like me, who can afford to pay the "Grateful Dead's" price of admission to the collective spirit embodied in this, their pecuniary resource.

Irrelevant are those who cannot.

I think the GD have set the tone now, and it is easiest just to submit to their lead :

I have long gotten all I need from this music, personally.

I have spent as much of my life's energy and resources as is reasonable within my means to share this music with others, (on their behalf) in the hope that others may find in it the inspiration I did.

I will do nothing more to aid the cause of the countless souls who can't afford and will never be able to afford the price of admission to a life filled with this healing music.

I got mine.

Everyone else who hasn't or can't is on their own.

See ya' in the promised land.....if your wallet is as fat as mine, that is.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-25 21:54:27

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Poster: BigBCherney Date: Nov 24, 2005 5:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: *The Greedful Dead*

I would like suggest that anyone who wants to share their SBD to either offer up server information through 'announce' or to post torrents at bt.etree.org. I had been wanting to download the 6/10/73 show for a awhile, but have been either too lazy to do so or too busy to do so. I guess I took it for granted that it would always be there. Went to download it today and found out it was gone. All anyone can do now is just share what they got. Would certainly like to get that 6/10/73.

bigbcherney@hotmail.com

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Poster: rollnaway Date: Nov 24, 2005 8:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

I've got to agree man. This just seems to be a filthy rotten thing to do. Kinda like selling hippy crack in the parking lot. However, Diana Hamilton has done alot of work on this and other dead related audio projects that have made at least my life a little brighter. So I agree this sucks, I for the most part quit buying their stuff when the golf accesories started showing up in the almanac. Diana deserves your praise not your contempt. Disagreements happen and she's doing her best to moderate a heated discussion. Thanks Dianna and all you folks at the archive and thank you to all you goddamn freaks that make this if not fun, entertaining.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 24, 2005 8:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Yada Yada

Aw shucks! Thanks for keeping it cool. :)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffskb archives Date: Nov 24, 2005 9:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Yada Yada

That's otis was said by weir about his dog...NOT JERRY...cm

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: They Win

They Win

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:29:13

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Poster: jhender501 Date: Nov 24, 2005 11:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Yada Yada


I swear I've seen a video of Otis wanderng onto the stage and whether it's Weir or not, I can't recall..but it was definitely referring
to Otis the dog and If I'm not mistaken "In the Dark" liner notes
made reference to the death of Otis.

I'll once again say, "thank you" to the Grateful Dead for many years of wonderful music, for the access to shows that we've had here. While it certainly is upsetting, as others have said, it's not the end of the world, folks.

"If you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind"

Jim

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffskb archives Date: Nov 24, 2005 11:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Yada Yada

I've got the video...cm

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Poster: jhender501 Date: Nov 25, 2005 3:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Yada Yada

Thank you



Jim

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

They win.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:24:21

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Poster: SavoyTruffle Date: Nov 24, 2005 4:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

im not sure how old this news is but it must be pretty recent. jimmy herring just quit the phil and friends tour. yet another reason not to go.

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Poster: matthe Date: Nov 24, 2005 4:12am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

As far as I saw today, all the Phil&Friends Shows are still available in the archive.
All you angry tapers (users), I think you should come down a little bit. The band owes us nothing! Instead, we owe them a lot for all the great music they gave us (of course for their living - so what?). And we should all be grateful for that treasure of so many sbd's, that we had access to for quite some time. We can trade the old way and get in contact with other heads again.
Peace
matthe (from Germany)

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Poster: laptaper Date: Nov 24, 2005 6:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

>During Ripple, Jerry adds a line that always stuck with me >(echoing in my head whenever I heard other >renditions)...."Let there be songs to fill the air.....THAT'S >OWED US".

If you're referring to the version on Reckoning (AKA For the Faithful), it's Bobby saying "That's Otis", meaning his dog who'd escaped one of the roadies and wandered on stage. We hear what we want to.

Talk about a Rorschack test.

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

They win.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:24:51

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Poster: petesake Date: Nov 24, 2005 8:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead/OTIS

that's correct.."that's Otis"...referring to a dog..
BUT...isn't "Otis" greek for " greed" ?????

It's amazing how many people turn from happy content
freeloaders, to angry finger-flipping madmen
when something becomes no longer free....lighten up,
the song ain't over yet...wait and see how it ends...

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:25pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead/OTIS

They win.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:25:16

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Poster: petesake Date: Nov 24, 2005 9:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead/OTIS

I've downloaded from this site...for free...I'm a free loader...at the moment I can't download anymore...OK.
this doesn't make me want to put a hex on anyone...I've been listening for over 35 years...the only thing constant
is change. if this road's closed, I'll take that road...
you put yourself out in front like a madman, raging against
the unknown reasons of someone, and you call everyone
who says wait and see a bleeding heart...get over it,
get on with it.

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Poster: 72Stu Date: Nov 24, 2005 8:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead/OTIS

I believe you're correct concerning the word "otis", since the root meaning of the word translates as "everything" or "whatever".

I also agree with your sentiments regarding the way so many people are responding to all of this. It would be ironic, were it not so ugly, that today is Thanksgiving, and a band named the GRATEFUL Dead--who have provided so much wonderful music for so long--are being villified by people who have been riding the LMA gravy train.

I really lament the recent turn of events here on the archive, and I do hope that some mid-ground is reached soon, but where is the gratitude from people who have had so much brilliant music for free for so long; tell me what other successful band has allowed so much material to be downloaded from this site. Of all the major bands of their generation, the Dead are the only ones who have allowed their stuff to be traded to this extent--so I find it distasteful for people to resort to such horrible name-calling.

Also, to the people who brag about how much they've spent on things over the years: when you but a ticket to a show, you get a seat to THAT SHOW; not the tour, not the carreer. When you buy an album, you have the right to that album--not a group's entire catalog.

Maybe now that there's a freeze on this archive's availability of Dead shows, people will be less spoiled by the easy availability of this singular material.

And friends, if the Dead were greedy money-mongerers, they never would have produced the type of material they did; they would have produced hits--not mindmelt. They took chances, gave their all for decades, and deserve some renumeration for their brilliant efforts. Greed isn't characterized by wanting money for your labors; it's evidenced by wanting more than you've earned--or in the case of the archive cry-babies, by wanting EVERYTHING for NOTHING. THAT is what typifies greed.

This said, I do emplore The Boys to rethink this complete withdrawal from the archive. I think that their interests would be best served by allowing a healthy amount of stuff to be available though this site for a while longer yet; it keeps their work available to the uninitiated, and keeps alive the spirit of trading that's been so special for so long. I call them to pay attention to how many customer reviews in their download series refference the archive--and mention how much better the official release is! People who enjoy the archive will still pay for official downloads of higher quality, (although the cost of the downloads are excessive, really--my one complaint against them). The archive can still be used by the Dead to promote visibility, and perpetuate this unique legacy.

To me, the best all-around result would be for the Dead to pull, months or a year in advance, any quality SBDs they plan to release officially, but to otherwise leave as much stuff available on this site as possible. That way, there's plenty enough for all to enjoy.

But if you do enjoy this music, then how about rewarding the guys (and gals) who've provided it by paying for a bit of it too. They've given us alot--let's give them some slack.

LET'S BE GRATEFUL TO THE DEAD!!!
Happy Thanksgiving!

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Poster: walthalljp Date: Nov 24, 2005 2:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

While I too am disappointed with the loss of access to the SBDs, your spiteful statement is pathetic and a testimony to those who fail to grasp the meaning behind the music. Grow up and deal with this without casting blame on people you have never met nor know of their true personality or motivations.

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

They win.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:22:51

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Poster: thewarden Date: Nov 24, 2005 9:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

>>> People like you are the reason tyrannies exist. Blind to evil. Apologists for the wicked.


eh???? sorry its hard to hear your bitching over the sound of a FREE dead show i just traded for.

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Poster: SavoyTruffle Date: Nov 24, 2005 3:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

the grateful dead took music 10 steps in the right direction during the 60's when the music industry in america was starting to get established (post beatles, stones). now they have thrown everything in the garbage. 100 STEPS BACK, and a dark, dark cloud is hanging around right now.

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Poster: deadza Date: Nov 24, 2005 3:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

my musical enjoyment has just been ripped from my brain by people with no emotion and no truth,i have been into the G dead since 1968 and was probrably one of the first people to reply to the fan club in the u.k. i got no responce but loved them all the same.When skull fuck was released in the states i called virgin records every day till it was in.Got home and wrote to the dead heads unite fan club
got a letter back felt great spent the next 37 years pushing this band to all and everyone ,they never wrote to me i never wrote back to the fan club. I have seen countless uk shows not all but plenty all the london shows
newcastle under lyme ,bickershaw etc, ally pally i have made it my life long task to turn as many people on to the band as poss,oh and im the guy at the robert hunter london gig 80 somthing at the new victoria who got hunter to give his autograph on the cover of rum runners to large applause.
Im gonna be 56 next year so i aint no kid but have only just got into p.c's ive only downloaded 10 shows and now its all been taken away by the power of money,surley they have enough ( a line from anthem) (all you need ,all you need
all you need is, all you got to have ,just a touch ,no i dont want it all) i hope ms koons reads this.
I am very very hurt and feel ive been lied to and yeah like the guy before i have put lots of money in there pockets to and i have never ever propheted(mr weir)
please someone out there come up with a site we can all trade on im not getting any younger and was looking foward to getting some wonderful moments in history please someone help.
Today for me is as bad as jerry dieing,i had it all in my hands and now its all gone.
Please dont be hateful everyone i know its difficult but we must not loose our dirrection even if those we held dear
have lost theres try peaceful demonstration,remember what we stand for and dont ever loose sight of that gem and if you are true it surley is a gem.
One last point lets wait till we get a full statement from all members and nominated mouthpieces
peace and love as always to all
p s it will get better

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Poster: doodle Date: Nov 24, 2005 3:10am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Holy CaJoley! That is an angry man, but the "flipping Phil The Bird" thing cracked me up...a great visual:)Anywho, it's true what the other respondents have said; it's not the end of the world, and hey we all collected and traded tapes WAY before thise archive (or CD's!) ever existed. For the short time that all this dead stuff was here we collected A LOT more. So, I think we will all be able to trade again. The dead never provided me with tapes in the 80's, my friends did. No my friends (all you folks) all have a ton more to trade and share. But again, that Phil thing cracked me up!

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

They win.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:23:21

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Poster: doodle Date: Nov 24, 2005 3:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Well said, and sadly, I agree. Not even from a new kid's perspective, but from an older person's (mine), it is pretty difficult to find people to trade with and create that community since the end of the actual existence of the band and touring. This archive effortlessly provided that. It's is truly sad

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 24, 2005 4:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Trading pointer

it is pretty difficult to find people to trade with

No, there are thousands here for instance: http://db.etree.org

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Poster: wajsims Date: Nov 24, 2005 3:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

I too cannot stop laughing at the thought of you flipping the bird center stage.
You have to give Phil and Bob credit for having the balls to be touring as the announcement is made...and you must detract credit for the lack of a formal statement regarding this monumental change.
I just hope that all the other bands, still touring collectively, will continue to embrace free online trading justified as free advertising.
Do you think that existing bands will allow free downloading and retired bands will charge?
Should we all scramble to save all the music we like from the other existing bands?
What a deal for the holiday season isn't it though.

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Poster: laptaper Date: Nov 24, 2005 6:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Okay, BS check time:

1. The music belongs to the Grateful Dead. It is theirs to give, sell, withold, convert to ad jingles, whatever. They created it, sweated for it, bled the life experiences and honed the musical skills that enabled them to create things of beauty. It is their art and their property.

2. Over the years they have generously allowed the taping and non-commercial trading of their music. This constitutes a gift. When someone gives you a present, the only appropriate response is "Thank you". Anything else is ingratitude and churlishness.

3. The fact that someone who gives you something can afford it does not mean they owe it to you.

4. When you get something for nothing, someone is getting nothing for something.

5. What have you ever given the Grateful Dead? I don't mean what have you bought from them, I mean what have you given, without expectation of anything in return?

6. "I want it" does not equal "I deserve it".

7. The people employed by the Dead have to be paid year round, whether they're touring or not. From what I've heard, when there's no money coming in this comes out of Phil's pocket, equaling $100s K a month. Kind of cuts into the whole retirement plan thing.

8. Any band that will let you tape with a cassette Walkman's cruddy condenser mike is already doing you favors.

9. Giving Phil the finger will persuade him to put the boards back up - yeah, right.

10. The Dead always reserved the right to withdraw their sanction of live taping and trading. They haven't done that to my knowledge (which would be their right), just closed off the easiest access to their music. Trading didn't begin with archive.org and won't end with it. Grow up, learn, move on.

11. See last sentence of 10.

12. You'll never lack for boards as long as you know how to make friends. Guess you're SOL, HighNRGOne

Thank you Brewster.
Thank you Grateful Dead.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMichael Anderson Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Word.

I'm not a hardcore deadhead by any stretch, but as an outsider, what you say rights true.

People need to get some context.

I'd just gotten into downloading shows off this site, and I really appreciated it. I'm very sorry that's ended, but I never thought it was my divine right to have people provide this stuff to me for free.

Nonetheless, I've got a dozen or so of the best shows in FLAC; if peeps want 'em, email me at mahanatma@gmail.com.

Because you can't always get what ya want, but ya get what need, know what I mean?

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:28pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

They win.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:28:06

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Poster: confusedlistening Date: Nov 24, 2005 7:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

I was born in 1988, and i cannot say that i ever saw a g.d. show. I was seven when they were playing at soldier field. I fell in love and grew to appreciate the grateful dead so much through their recordings, and through the concerts taht i was not fortunate to attend, but i could still blast them in my house and dance up a ruckus. This was an AMAZING way to get your hands on the best music around. I have downloaded many many shows from this site, but i still wanted many many more and its a bummer that that isnt possible anymore. I would say the worst part of this entire thing is that it will be a much more difficult task to spread the peace, love, and pure joy that was the grateful dead.

peace

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Poster: dr. flashback Date: Nov 24, 2005 1:36pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Dear High,
I agree with much of WHAT you've said, but if you wanna persuade folks to see your point, you might try and say it a little better, clearer or at least nicer? I know, I'm pissed too. But these times and issues require a cool head and a clear strategy about HOW (if at all possible) to change this insane, greedy policy move. We can petition, we can call 1-800-225-3323 and KEEP calling until they have to shut off the phones. We can write or Email them directly. Beyond that - I'm not sure what other resources we have to get GDP or the band to listen. I'm open to suggestion?
I would love to be there on the front row at Phil with my own sign! It won't help of course - but it feels good to at least try and talk back to a band that has long since stopped listening to its fan base.
Also, I'm betting that like me, you were born before 1960 and remember something called the DIGGERS in S.F.
This is one of those where you're either old enough to remember the movement, and the spirit of fighting against capitalist materialism, or you're not. And if you're not, it's likely that you just don't get it and never will.
I'm guessing that many here, esp. the younger fans (no disrespect intended) have never put their butt on the line and demonstrated in the streets, as I have. Or been hassled and beaten up by cops - JUST for having long hair, as I was.
My point being that the same forces we were fighting against in the 60's is what we're still facing here on the music issue.
And that IS -
that there is a cultural, artistic and especially a spiritual value to life that should not be imposed upon, restricted or damaged by the ECONOMIC or corporate aspect of society. We are spiritual beings FIRST, who need art, music, literature as well as community, love and trust in order for life to have any meaning and quality to it. Jeeez people - do I have to remind folks to read Tom Hayden's "Port Huron Statement" which said it more eloquently that i ever could.
If you think life is only about money and who owns what, then God help you people. Society today has become SO much more corporate-slave consumer-ish than I would have ever believed. My SUV is bigger than your SUV. $300 running shoes with lights. Living on credit cards. Give me a break!!
There are larger, more important cultural and spiritual issues involved here. Arguing that the Dead own this music, or that GDP is having staff layoffs (which they are) is only partly accurate because it simply misses the bigger picture. Why did the parking lot scenes get so bad by 1990? Why did you see Phish fans shooting up heroin at shows? Because these higher, more important spiritual values got lost along the way when the Corporate-marketplace values took over - both for bands AND the audiences.
And to that point - we ALL have to take some blame. Why are we as a society in such a desparate need to be entertained by "Media Celebrity Gods" (I'm talking TV, movies, rock and roll, ALL of it) that we sacrifice our spiritual values and higher ethics just to be constantly "entertained". We are guilty of feeding this monster, and only we can pull the plug.
I am an old, hard core non-materialist. I live VERY simply. I don't own a TV, or a cell phone. On this Thanksgiving Day, I would urge everyone to give thanks, but also to live simply. If your ethics tell you something is too expensive - like $200 concert tickets - DON'T buy it!!
Life is about more than legal rights or how much money you have, or need. The reason we hippies scared the crap outta the "Establishment" wasn't the weird clothes or the drugs. It was that we were becoming a NON-CONSUMER counter culture, that by the 70's had turned into the "back to the land" Mother Earth News movement. And they stopped it, almost. And that's how you get 20 year olds who have illusions of being "counter culture" shopping at Wal Mart and not seeing the contradictions at all.
You either get it or you don't, folks. Find an old copy of "The Greening of America".
Last point to consider - if Woodstock Ventures, Inc. had taken the GDP hard line, and only allowed people with tickets to attend - what would it have become? Just another rock concert. It was the spiritual and cultural values that luckily, got through to them and they said, "This thing is bigger than us, let everybody in for free". The father of John Roberts, one of the 2 main investors, was set to lose over 1 million dollars due to all the cold checks written. And do you know what he said - as he covered his son's financial losses?
"You can lose your money a dozen times, but you can only lose your good name and self-respect ONCE".
Something for the Grateful Dead to take heed to.
Thanks for listening,
Dr. Flashback
Live simply, live free, be grateful.

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Poster: S Travers Date: Nov 25, 2005 5:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Quite nicley said!!

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Poster: SavoyTruffle Date: Nov 25, 2005 5:22pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

thanks for posting.

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Poster: petesake Date: Nov 24, 2005 10:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

As far as SBD's I don't need them and have so many I haven't even listened to (in full) yet that I have years to go.
what is YOUR actual beef then? making the world conform
to your idea of just?

relentlessly collecting more than one needs or can consume
sounds a lot like GREED.

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Nov 24, 2005 6:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

i agree.i was mad but it does belong to the band.Here.s to 8-27-72 coming out on dvd and cd next year.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 25, 2005 9:28pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

so dramatic...you in theatre?

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 26, 2005 5:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Fight the Good Fight

So callous....are you human?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 24, 2005 5:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The inflammatory post

I moderated away some of the ad hominems and foul language. Here is some advice about posting: http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=39913

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-24 13:00:29

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:26pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The inflammatory post

They win.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:26:45

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Nov 24, 2005 7:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The inflammatory post

Please keep it clean folks. Vulgarities will be moderated. Personal attacks will be moderated. Keep it civil, you will garner more respect that way.

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Poster: jcroot Date: Nov 24, 2005 11:04pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The inflammatory post

your post would have made more sense if more had been deleted.

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Poster: smi2les Date: Nov 26, 2005 1:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Grateful Dead

What's the big deal ? If you need it you can find it. Mainly I enjoy the music for it's healing properties along with a cassette chaser. If your a suto then it ain't in your medicine bag anyhow.

Be thankful the boyz were so far ahead of the rest. You'll see fingerprints in almost every tour you'll patronize. All over the road you'll hear it, you'll see it, and you'll feel it.

Thank you to all concerned.

try this site http://www.isound.com/music/top_dead_center_az/

This post was modified by smi2les on 2005-11-26 09:48:46

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Poster: mshalfstep Date: Nov 24, 2005 11:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead (flippin' Phil?)

Been listening to the conversation from afar not feeling the need to add anything until now. disappointed but not angry...

Last I saw, Phil still has over 600 concerts available for free download. Incredibly, a taper has already posted 11/21/2005...(thank you taper! thank you LMA! thank you Phil!) Can't believe Phil has anything to do with this...

I'll be front and center at the P & F show in Atlanta, but I won't be flippin' him off. Guess I ought to start downloading the 11/21 show now if people like you will be...

Oh look, the 11/22 show is up too! Looks like this is busiest shopping day of the year!

This post was modified by mshalfstep on 2005-11-25 07:34:09

This post was modified by mshalfstep on 2005-11-25 07:51:31

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Poster: rugbyman Date: Nov 24, 2005 11:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead (flippin' Phil?)

Not to trivialize the loss, I for one wish I had burnt more Dead SBD shows while they were free. I can think of 8 or 9 that I was going to download but put off.
But move on, there is incredible "NEW" live music out there, especially on the Archive.
Many of the writers profess to think they know what Jerry thought and would have said concerning a matter like this. But Jerry when he was alive and playing was always getting into new music, new ideas, positive thoughts and yeah free music. But hey, move on and go and listen to some of Jerry's Kids and the free music they are making.
Cheers
Rugbyman

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Poster: Terrapin31590 Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead (flippin' Phil?)

After I pulled my jaw off the floor and figured out "wha' happened," my thoughts were several fold:

1. What took so long? For the glass half empty crowd, the idea that a gold plated key to the "vault" would last forever seemed unlikely. To be honest, I was more surprised it was the band itself and not the government or some other corporate entity that pulled the plug.

2. Yes, greedy b*****rds (is that ok Diana?)

3. Hey, it's their music, they can do what they want with it.

4. Reallllly glad I d/l all those SBDs while they were still around.

5. And in all seriousness, here is where I am torn. Yes, I respect the fact that it's "their" music and they can do with it what they please. What rubs me the wrong way is that for the 30 years the bad was together, they had NO qualms about making SBDs available, indeed, they LET people plug directly into the darn thing. So after those 30 years and after another 10 or so of this music being available for free on line, NOW you suddenly say, "just kidding." Without getting TOO philosophical, once you've allowed a person to record your music AND given them the green light to do whatever they want with it (ironically, the one caveat was always, NO PROFITS!) you can't then put the genie back in the bottle and say, sorry, no more.

As many others have said, the hard core among us already own nearly everything that's been put out commercially, they have MORE than made their money on us, but what is now (I fear) going to happen is a bitter harvest from the very core of loyalists that kept the band afloat for so long. I've been on the bus since 7/13/89, and to be honest, this is the first time in nearly 17 years that I've really questioned whether the Dead will be part of my musical vocabulary, the experience, on some level, HAS been tainted, a certain innocence (naivete?) lost. It's not an issue of AUDs still being available but SBDs not, it's a matter of the defensible view that a lie was told, a truth broken, and for the one reason we hoped never animated the Dead's decision making -- money.

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Poster: johnny99 Date: Nov 25, 2005 5:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead (flippin' Phil?)

Thats what irks me about this whole affair, it's almost like a business manager held a meeting and siad "Are you guys crazy, your giving your product away for free!" This of course is what set the Dead apart from all the other bands out there who make a record every 2 years, tour, disappear, and then start the whole process over again. I always thought they were cool for not charging people to hear Jack Straw or China Cat for the hundreth time in a different plce and decade, now it appears that this is just what they intend to do.

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Poster: aikox2 Date: Nov 25, 2005 5:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead (flippin' Phil?)

Forgive my rambling here, but obviously I am not alone in needing to vent on this issue. Indeed, this is my third seperate post in as many threads.

I'm no lawyer, but I have a friend who is a surveyor, and he once explained to me that when someone allows access to their property for a number of years, they grant an easement that becomes permenant. Similarly, if your neighbor does not tend land on the border of your properties and you tend it as if it were your own, there is a tacit conveyance of that property to the one who tends it, or something to that effect. My point is that we have tended to these recordings and these sites long enough to have earned the right to further steward these works (contrary to what the band says). Sure, it won't hold up in court, and probably makes little sense, but I am stunned by this sudden nasty turn of events and my mind is spinning and spewing.
Aiko

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Poster: Spotlight Date: Nov 27, 2005 6:32am
Forum: etree Subject: aikox2's homesteading idea

Aikox you and your survayor friend are absolutely 100% righ that when someone allows access to their land for a number of years, they grant an easement that can become permenant. I think this is the best argument yet for keeping the Dead up here. However, this legal concept is entrenched in real estate law (that is Real property) and is not usually found running rampant in the area of Intellectual property. Which is what this is.

The lord giveth and the lord taketh away. That is, the music is probably theirs to do with what they want. One poster made the point what about the guy who Healey or which ever Dead representative, allowed a patch to the SBD at the time of the show. What about that tape? Well, I think that the answer is he has his legal copy (and his back ups) for "private personal use" I believe is the way the law pertaining to this states it. Means its not to be sold or really even mass distributed. I think the law is on the bands side. Still, your argument is an excellent one and should be included in any defense.

Hey, I'm as sorry as anyone, I just bought a huge hard drive to fill up. And in fact, my planned activity for TG was to spend the day downloading some stuff I had been streaming previously (like all summer). After having been dragging my feet for about 9 months, I went out and bought this 300gig drive and made it a goal to fill it up with music. Luckily I was able to download gd77-05-13 before the end, God! what a finely executed show. But hey, I want the Dead to continue making a living.

If I have to pay 99 cents a song for a SBD of the gd71-12-10 at the Fox Theater, St. Louis, I would gladly do it. That show was broadcast via local FM station, however the phone companie's lines from the theater to the station were funky and there was a whistle on the dang thing. Guess I'll have to now. Now, I'm making alot of assumptions. Who know's if the music will be available that way. If there is a 'comercialization' of the music/scene, then more people will hear the music and maybe they'll be more Dead Heads, isn't that what we want ??

If anyone really thinks all the music should be provided free to them forever, then i would invite them to call me, as I would like for them to come to St. Louis (at their expense) and work for me for a few weeks-- for free.

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Poster: EstimatedEyes Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead (flippin' Phil?)

i dont get it since when did we buy there soundboard ? Did we magically pay for it with our tour money ? Nope ... yes they may have let people plug in or leaked some here and there but how did that make it ours ? were lucky to have what we have .. most bands dont allow you that luxury .... I miss the SDB's too but this has all just gotten out of hand i think we have all forgoten how this all started and how we ended up here today ....As Far as the audience tapes go i think thats pretty sad they would (still not sure who they is) make them only be allowed to stream them since they were actually taped by tapers converted and uploaded by them that to me is pretty iffy .. Ohh well i seem to be one of the few who is just grateful i can listen to a show i saw back in 1989 at all .....

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 24, 2005 2:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

AMEN Brother, I couldn't have said it better myself. The Grateful Dead officially Died November 23 2005. May Jerry Rest In Peace as his legacy has finally been totally corrupted by his so called friends. If we were like most music fans and attended one concert per year in our home town, these guys would just be one more good band struggling to get by.


This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-11-24 10:29:09

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-11-24 10:40:31

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Poster: alwaysluvem Date: Nov 24, 2005 8:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

whatever

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Poster: Antero Date: Nov 24, 2005 11:45pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

I've been reading posts at this website and others about this situation and just have to ask...When did this vile, hatred start to permeate out of our scene? Yeah, it was a scene, not some cyberspace venting board. The Grateful Dead owe each and every one of us NOTHING!! They have been absolutely kind and generous to us since 1965. When exactly did those of you spewing this nonsense take the path to selfishness? Did you learn nothing at all from your brothers and sisters on tour? From seeing my first show (Hara 11-30-81) to my last (Deer Creek 7-2-95)I have never seen such attitudes from people who call themselves Heads.
You want Jerry to rest in peace? Why don't you all shut up and give him peace! Don't you know that the pressure to keep all of us happy and smiling is what led to his addictions and death? He's not resting right now. He's seething.
Some of you are saying that the Fillmore '69 release is losing its luster over this? WHAT?? Some want to flip off Phil?? WHAT?? Listen to yourselves. You've been spoiled so long that you don't even know when people have been giving you a gift for 40 years.
What am I thankful for this year? I'm thankful for a group of people who gave of themselves for the past 40 years. Why don't you all chew on that for awhile.
Back in the day we used to trade with people in person and through the mail. Why don't some of you people get out from in front of your computer and actually trade with people one on one?
What happened to you people? There are no arguments or justifications you can make. You have become amazingly selfish. I have never been so ashamed of this community as I am now.
WAKE UP PEOPLE

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Poster: jhender501 Date: Nov 25, 2005 10:50pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead


I believe, sir, you have hit the nail on the head.


Jim

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 25, 2005 11:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

You were at Deer Creek 7/2/95 and you say that this is the worst behavior you've ever seen from self-proclaimed Dead Heads? My how ten years softens the memories.

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Poster: Antero Date: Nov 25, 2005 11:40pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Yes, maybe the mind has gone a bit! But at Deer Creek I was way down front and never really witnessed the carnage. In the last few years of The Grateful Dead it seemed that there were less Heads and more frat kids looking to score. That is our fault though, as we didn't do a good enough job of letting people understand what the scene was all about. We blew it. That's what I think myself and other people who are posting similar things are trying to do. I do stand corrected by you. But don't you think that there is a lot of HATRED spewing out right now? It's up to us to fix it.
If anyone is looking for a great respectful scene in music right now I urge you to start to check out the scene around The Black Crowes right now. The shows may be in smaller venues (Thank God!), but there really is a family atmosphere. It's a fun time much like the early 80s were for The Dead. (My only frame of reference) 3 hour shows, acoustic tunes, and who can beat hearing Burrito Brothers and Leon Russell covers?

Peace To All

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Poster: Jellybones Date: Nov 26, 2005 12:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

I've stayed out of this mostly. And I kinda agree with alot of your points to some degree; the Dead were always held on a different level to me. When asked, what bands do you like, I'd say perhaps The Band, Floyd, Sonic Youth, Fela... any number of the incredible groups I have in my collection. I don't even count the Dead amongst other bands, they are in the category of experience, attitude and lifestyle. More than music if you will. And this turn of events is a blow to that. But the times change.

But stepping back, I think there is a large degree of overreaction. I have heard nothing yet of any blockades to traditional trading. There will always be a culture of sharing surrounding the Grateful Dead and thier shows. If you cannot afford every download, I find it hard to fathom that peoples cups will ever be empty. Though this inconvenience might force people to put a bit of social effort into obtaining some kind show, the value of the shows actually may benefit. Remember how it felt to get that little bit of gold? How precious it was? I don't think this will taint that in the long run.

I personally just wish there would be some offical statement from the Band/Organizations that be.

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 25, 2005 4:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Deleted.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-26 00:20:30

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Poster: Mark Michaels Date: Nov 24, 2005 3:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: The Greedful Dead

Hey Everyone! Happy Thanksgiving! Let us give thanks for the Grateful Dead. Yes, we can mourn that easy access to sooooo many shows is gone. It's too bad, really. But I can't bring myself to hate. I remember the day I discovered the archive....what pure joy! The motherload! For the last 2+ years, I have listenend to to almost nothing BUT GD. I probably have over 50 shows...a small collection compared to some, but enough for me, for now. I may eventually grow tired of some of the shows, or yearn for some new ones. When that time comes, I'll find someone to trade with.

For now, I'd like to offer B&P's of any of my shows. Send me an email if you're interested, and I'll send you a link to my list of shows as soon as I can get one together.

Love to all, marksmichaels@hotmail.com